Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/24/1999 03:15 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
March 24, 1999
3:15 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman
Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman
Senator Pete Kelly
Senator Jerry Mackie
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Sean Parnell
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings: Board of Game - Greg Roczicka, Mike Fleagle,
Greg Streveler
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-16, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:15 p.m. and announced that the Committee would consider
Board of Game confirmation hearings.
MR. GREG STREVELER, Gustavus, said he has been on the Board for two
years and feels like he is just getting to be a half way decent
Board member. They are dealing with some important issues and he
wants to continue to contribute.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what he saw as the toughest issues in the
next two years.
MR. STREVELER answered the resolution of subsistence and the degree
to which urban and rural people are in conflict over resource uses.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what happened to the proposal on Unit 13
bear season.
MR. STREVELER explained that throughout the week the Board was
getting testimony about the accumulating dire situation for moose
in Unit 13. There was very good biological information suggesting
that the female adult component of moose was getting older and
older and they weren't being replaced at the proper rate due to
predation, fundamentally by brown bears. The Board felt it was
important to be proactive, but couldn't' agree at first on how to
deal with it. At first, he voted against same day aerial hunting
of bears, because although it had merit, the public wouldn't accept
it. So they decided to get more public input before acting.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he basically agreed with that position,
because there wouldn't have been sufficient bears taken compared to
all the flack they would have had to take for doing it. He thought
bears could be "harassed" more effectively during the time when
they are specializing on killing calf moose.
MR. STREVELER said they have to get another look at the whole bear
situation. If they are going to reduce bears in Unit 13, they have
already liberalized the season a whole lot and it hasn't seemed to
touch the bear population. Biologists seems to be coming to the
conclusion that you are going to have to start taking down the
female part of the population and there is tremendous public
sentiment against that. We can't get too far ahead of the public
on this and expect to get anywhere.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD responded that he didn't disagree and asked since
the Board chose not to set population and harvest levels in areas
identified for intensive management, had they requested the data
base from the Department.
MR. STREVELER answered they didn't at that meeting, because they
had set out a phased procedure and wanted to give the public plenty
of notice to be able to come to the Board with their ideas. The
Board wanted to use this interim to set out the populations that
were going to be targeted for high levels of consumptive use.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how good the Department had been in terms of
providing information to cooperative with that harvest level
effort.
MR. STREVELER answered that they had been very helpful.
Number 140
SENATOR MACKIE said he is concerned with the continued use of our
fish and game resources in Glacier Bay National Park and noted that
Mr. Streveler had been a contractor in the Park to the Southeast
Alaska Conservation Council to characterize the industry and advise
on issues related to Glacier Bay commercial fishing. He asked how
he viewed the continued use of both commercial and subsistence
resources within the Park.
MR. STREVELER explained the contract he had was with SEAC to be a
biological advisor to Bart Kohler when he was part of the
negotiating team. He took it on, because he respected the way Mr.
Kohler was going about it, trying to interject the conservationist
point of view, but also trying to come from the standpoint that
fishing was not a conflicted use. Now he is real discouraged at
the way the whole thing has shaken out. The local group had been
within striking distance of coming up with something everyone could
live with pretty well and he was sad when it all blew up.
SENATOR MACKIE said the problems in the Park that directly affect
his constituency come from the Park Service and the conservation
movement and his resume says he has worked for both. Most people
in the Legislature feel that the Bay should continue to be managed
for the resource users.
MR. STREVELER said he agreed and worked towards that goal with Bart
whose solution kept the vast majority of the Bay open to fishing.
SENATOR MACKIE asked if he foresaw the Board of Game having to deal
with any of those types of issues down the road. He wanted to
support people who have a very pro State of Alaska management
philosophy and are willing to make the difficult decisions to
continue to do that.
MR. STREVELER said he quit the Park Service in 1980 because he was
pretty tired of the way the feds were doing that. He has always
tried to look out for local people and see that they aren't brushed
aside by federal policies.
Number 200
SENATOR LINCOLN said it looks like he's involved in a lot of
educational training and asked how his attendance had been at the
Board of Game.
MR. STREVELER answered that he had been to every meeting.
SENATOR MACKIE asked if he had any suggestions on how to deal with
the Park situation.
MR. STREVELER answered that it is a real eye opener to compare the
way ADF&G and the Park Service deal with people. He didn't have
any quick fixes to suggest. The biggest problem is the rate of
turnover in the Park staff and you're always dealing with someone
new.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked Mr. Streveler and announced that Mr. Mike
Fleagle would testify.
MR. FLEAGLE, McGrath, said it has been a pleasure to serve his
first term on the Board and wanted their support once again. There
are many difficult issues like the initiative that just passed to
ban same day aerial hunting of wolves and elimination of snares.
They are faced with the challenge of an administration that is
unwilling to allow any lethal population control of wolves and an
increasing pressure applied by a small, but very vocal, segment of
the public to restrict further take. He fully supported any means
of combating this run on the ballot box for the management of game
resources. He felt that a constitutional amendment protecting the
rights of hunters, fishers, and trappers was in order as other
states are doing.
Good ungulate management includes predator management and he has
been an advocate of an increased harvest of wolves for through any
means available including state sponsored programs. He does not
agree with the nonlethal program being used on the Forty Mile
wolves.
MR. FLEAGLE said he carefully considers all issues, votes according
to his heart, and is not concerned with the political fall-out. He
has been a fair and reasonable voice on the Board and would like to
continue his service to the State and its people.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him to comment with regard to identifying
population and harvest targets for intensive game management on the
progress they have made and on the level of support the Board
received from the Department in doing that.
MR. FLEAGLE responded that the new intensive management law has
been fairly complex, although the intent was simple. The Board
spent the first portion of its cycle trying to identify the
populations. They move around on a regional cycle and deal with
different areas of the state at different times. As the
populations are defined, they are leaving the harvest and
populations objective numbers to be determined through the public
process. The Board has found that the Department has been very
helpful in the implementation of the intensive management.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said it didn't seem like we have either population
objectives or harvest objectives in a lot of the areas where there
are literally decades of data base from the ADF&G. He asked why
they never got to that point.
MR. FLEAGLE assured him that the Board was frustrated, too. They
have adopted a schedule that would first of all identify all the
populations that meet the requirements in the state and then they
would go to the public with the population and harvest numbers. He
didn't see how they could follow the law and go any faster.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he appreciated their efforts to speed up the
process.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what he thought the major concerns were for
the Board of Game.
MR. FLAEGLE answered the number one issue was the state and federal
government resolving the subsistence debate so that our fish and
game resources are returned to the State. He wanted to stay out of
the politics of how that is accomplished, but the dual management
system would continue to get more and more cumbersome. His second
concern is with the urban versus rural user conflicts. Their
underlying theme is that they don't really want to keep other
people out, but the numbers they come in are overwhelming to
compete for the resource. He also thought they needed to get a
handle on the wildlife management by ballot initiative. He
supported the resolutions that would change the composition of the
ballot initiative signatures. He thought this would be their
biggest challenge.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he had any suggestion in how to handle
predator populations when the effect means of harvest are
eliminated by initiative.
MR. FLAEGLE said he did, although it might not be acceptable to the
people who want to stop wolf harvest. He supported Senator Kelly's
bill overturning certain portions of the same day air borne act and
thought they should stop the efforts to take away preventative
measures like snaring. A third thing, if the State is willing, is
to go into rural areas and hold wolf trapping symposiums which has
been effective in his area.
There were no further questions.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD invited Mr. Greg Roczicka to testify next.
MR. ROCZICKA, Bethel, said he is proud to be a member of the Board
of Game and that they receive many compliments on the way the
conduct the public process.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how long he had served.
MR. ROCZICKA answered about one year.
SENATOR TAYLOR said that during that time the number of tags
allowed for the Etolin Island elk population has gone from 29 to a
proposal for this year of 75.
MR. ROCZICKA said that the elk population is doing well in that
area.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he was concerned that the Board had been given
faulty information regarding competition on habitat between Sitka
black tail deer and elk. In fact, he requested the lab work and
field notes on that subject and never received them. As far as he
could tell, the study had never been completed with no final report
being issued. If the 75 number is based on the competition theory,
he wanted the Board to inquire of the Department about what they
believe to be the carrying capacity of the islands and areas
impacted by their alleged competition. Everyone ducks that
question when he asks it, because Southeast Alaska never achieves
carrying capacity on Sitka black tail deer because of winter kill
and wolves. Yet, the Department wants to say the elk are out there
eating the poor little deer out of house and home. In fact, they
are going to die by wolf or winter kill whether the elk are there
or not. He thought the information might be suspect and that
people offering it to him from within the Department have an
agenda.
MR. ROCZICKA said he could appreciate that view. He said, however,
there was always going to be criticisms.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he respected the Board's work, but he has a
concern about a dramatic expansion of the permitting process. He
would rather see it go up five or 10 permits per year over an
extended period of time. Until there is some biological
information indicating we should be reducing the growth of that
herd, he would appreciate it if they didn't entertain further
requests for additional permits for additional hunting on that
population for another five years.
MR. ROCZICKA responded that the basis for his decision was that the
herd was very healthy and could sustain the harvest.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked him to be very careful with future decisions,
because he didn't know that the population was as strong as the
Department is indicating. A B.C. study indicates that deer and elk
may have a symbiotic relationship that enhances both and he hoped
they would call him for the information if the question comes up
before the Board.
MR. ROCZICKA indicted he would be happy to do that.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what issues he thought were going to be major
concerns for the Board in the next few years.
MR. ROCZICKA answered that the subsistence issue has to be
resolved, because a lot of harvestable populations are going
totally to subsistence users. Something needs to be done to allow
the Board some latitude to provide some level of use for different
interests.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked all three for appearing before the
committee.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to send the standard letter of nonobjection to
the presiding officer. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 3:55 p.m.
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